Thursday, September 29, 2011

Seriously?

I have to rant.

This is about stealing.

I know, I know, a lot of you are rolling your eyes after reading this. But come on. Seriously?

Most animators in my workshops want to work at Pixar, yet on their hard drives or thumb drives the majority of ripped or downloaded movies are Pixar movies. They've heard my rants many times but I ask again.

You want to learn from Pixar teachers. You want to work there. But you don't have $9 to buy the DVD?


Don't you want to support the company so that they can continue to make their movies, so that you can one day work there? Sure, that's a simplistic view, but I really don't get it. It's not going to break your bank and you support your peers.

You're stealing! I know, I sound like an old fart, but hey.

It's so easy nowadays to get things for free but out of all the things, as an animator, wouldn't you at least support the animation industry?

But this is not what prompted this post. It was an email from Jamaal Bradley. His "From Planning to Polish" tutorial is $29.99 and it's a great tutorial, well worth the money.


Yet in his email he explains that people have been passing along the quicktime tutorial, which forces him now to change his ways of delivering his tutorials to people.

And that just pissed me off.

Seriously? You can't afford to buy something for $29.99?

A fellow animator is working hard to produce something in order to help other people. But none of that matters. Just like movies, or music or whatever is easily copied and ripped, why pay for it?

I know this is a useless rant, but I still had to rant. Out of all the things, you don't even support your own industry.

Fail.

57 comments:

Andy J. Latham said...

A worthwhile rant I think. To be honest I don't know who wouldn't want to buy a copy. I have found over the years that any material I have obtained for free I haven't valued anywhere near as much as the things I have purchased.

I have wondered recently about creating animated films for the internet and trying to operate a donation system, but I can't help thinking that few people would donate even if they absolutely loved the films.

Tae Cha said...

I strongly agree with you. I know some people pay around $4 for a cup of latte in Starbucks everyday, but don't pay for buying a DVD a month.

Anonymous said...

According to that logic we should also spend money on the programs we rely on to animate (Maya, Photoshop, ETC) I mean, if we can absorb 10's of thousands of dollars in debt, what's 10-20k more?

Personally I don't have a lot of debt, I am very lucky for that. Still, there have been months, if not years at a time where my daily budget was $10 a day. Going to the bank to deposit $10 in laundry quarters was stressful. Give that a try before proclaiming how morally wrong we all are for trying to get by.

ScottH said...

Couldn't agree with you more. If some animator is busting their ass to make a great tutorial I'll gladly cough up the bucks.

Anonymous said...

So buying and sharing something is wrong? hate to break it to you but sharing information is just common sense at work. I've bought tutorials and shared them with friends and friends have bought tutorials and shared them with me. Individually we couldn't afford these things but together we're able to.

Jean-Denis Haas said...

To anonymous: there are massive students discounts for programs and if you're enrolled at a school, they should provide the students with the programs.

And I've been on a budget as well, low one like you, so thank you very much, I know what you're talking about and it's still not an excuse for stealing.

Sorry, no sympathy there.

Jean-Denis Haas said...

Oh please, "sharing". Right.

Anonymous said...

Appreciation of an artist's work is the ultimate reward. It's not the like money of DVD sales go into animator's pocket. No number of DVD sales would prevent massive layoffs if there's nothing to work on. If you want to support the artists, go to CTN and spend money at the booths.

Jean-Denis Haas said...

Interesting.

So you work at a company animating for a movie.

One guy pays a movie ticket and films the movie and no one else goes to the theater. The movie bombs. The company might scratch some money together for a DVD release. One guy buys it, then rips it and shares it online.

No profit for the company so they have to close and everybody gets laid off.

I'm sure you're okay with that.

Any profit for the company is good. So when there is nothing to work on, there is an overhead budget to keep people employed and avoid layoffs.

But hey, I will appreciate the artist's work by sharing their tutorial with everybody I know. I'm sure that will help out the artist. Oh wait. He should sell that tutorial at CTN. Then I will pay for it.

Anonymous said...

"One guy pays a movie ticket and films the movie and no one else goes to the theater. The movie bombs. The company might scratch some money together for a DVD release. One guy buys it, then rips it and shares it online."

This scenario is wayyy too convenient to your point? I can think of a few animated movies that have bombed. Their problems were not piracy.

Can you give an example of a studio that was ruined solely because of piracy?

Jean-Denis Haas said...

No, I can't. It's a simplistic argument for a simplistic logic:

Stealing is okay.

AFightingPanda said...

I am not going to defend the people who steal just because they want to. The people that steal because they don't want to pay for something. That is lazy and it is wrong. But personally I give a pass to students who are trying to learn their craft. Its true that they are in the wrong when downloading a film to study. But how is a student who is living off of borrowed money supposed to be able to afford these movies which are all around $20? I know its easy to say that downloading/sharing is wrong but how much harder would it be to learn any craft if you cant experience the work of professionals? How hard would it be to learn painting without ever being able to see another painting? How hard would it be to learn music if all you were given was sheet music and you couldn't hear the original piece? So much of learning comes from exposure to the art form itself. That is my opinion on it and I know it wont be agreed with by most people. In the end, I think both sides of this argument are taking a too simplistic view. The world is shades of grey, it doesn't like to be painted black and white.

AkaWander said...

Girls, u are both pettry.
Both have a point, i personally bought this tutorial and didn't share it with anybody cuz, for me is hard to get that money (student here) but not only for that, is because, like andy said, i valued it more. BUT THERE IS KNOWLADGE INVOLVED, SO, if someone ask me about jamal's workflow, I WILL ANSWER what I get from it, OBVIUSLY, share the knowladge, but if u want the source, get the original!

Is the same on movies, i can show u the trailer, and tell u the story of the movie, but if u really wanna see it, buy it, support the cause =)

PS: my rough english rulz

Franky said...

"Anonymous
September 29, 2011 5:17 PM" what are you talking about, thats not the point its totally different.would you want your animations / your work your Art to be "shared" if you gonna steal steal from the rich not the poor, not from your fellow animators. your argument has no foundation, but ethics and the law is not on your side.

-for the other anonymous guy, thats why there's Maya Learning edition.

Anonymous said...

You are correct about stealing. It's wrong!

We work in a competitive field where the jobs go to the best reels. When I think about my colleagues who have the best reels, they're all filthy pirates and take advantage of all the extra resources they could find.

So what are the options here? Pirate, like everyone else, or be less competitive. It's not an easy answer.

Anonymous said...

-Franky

I can't think of a single animator who got a job with a student edition watermarked playblast...It goes to what I'm saying about being competitive

Franky said...

there's no water mark anymore, its the full version of maya, its just has a student stamp on the file's script. and everythime you save the file its reminds you this is a student version, but you could make a Hi-rendered playblast and it looks file. or you could open the file on a full version and then render it there, but I'm sure you would be able to render with the student version. without a waterMark. all you need is your student email and autodesk will give you maya for free, no expiration! as for movies, a lot of stuff is starting to be free nowadays. theres crackled, youtube, and a lot a lot of public domain movies I know most of them suck, but! youll be surprise what gold you find on public domain. lol and sucky movies are fun sometime lol. their my guilty pleasure.

Anonymous said...

-Franky

That's good to know, I retract my latest statement =)

Franky said...

Cool :)

Phil Willis said...

Thanks Jean-Denis

It's been something I've been thinking about for a while.

When I talk with friends in the animation industry it makes me feel like I'm the only one honest enough (dumb enough?) to buy or rent my movies through legit sources instead of filling up a harddrive with pirated content.

I don't know what prices are like around the world, but in Sydney - if you can't afford $18 for a movie ticket, why not wait three months and rent the movie for $6?

Too much? Watch it with two friends, split the cost and pay $2 each.

Honestly if you can't afford $2 for a movie - you're not serious about your art.

You're just a tightwad.

Josh Bowman said...

It appears though that according to some, splitting the cost for a movie or tutorial is still stealing.

I've taught animation for the last two years at a local college and I have no issue with students handing on to others what I'm teaching them because they've paid for it and it's their right to do with the information what they want. Once I've shared my knowledge or an idea it no longer belongs to me.

I just have an expectation that people will share information. If I end up being out of the the job because of over sharing I don't hold a grudge because I just expect the information I give out to be shared. The real value comes from individual feedback to students.

I've shared plenty of information from tutorials I've purchased with those around me at work, does that mean I'm stealing because I'm sharing information?

If you want to control everything and expect that everyone will pay you for information then good luck policing it because it's a totally unrealistic expectation

ddd divil said...

In fairness their dishonesty will come back to them in spades.

Copying Pixar animation will get them nowhere. They won't know how to be creative or original and their animation will look tired and cliched (just like Pixar).

CGMarshall said...

Just thought i would throw this out there.

I work in VFX as an animator. Work on some big movie titles.
I go to the cinema every Wednesday without fail, Pay fullprice ticket. and any other day an invite comes my way.

Download movies soon as they are avalable to download. study them.
watch them over and over.
write notes on them,
take small clips of acting choices/ staging / cinematography that i find interesting and add it to my library of Inspiring clips.

Any of these clips I add to my library I Pre-order The Bluray on Amazon. So i get it as soon as it comes out.

Im sure there are a lot of people out there that just rip off the movie idustry but its not as black and white as downloading movies is stealing.

I think it's more:
-enjoy the cinema experience.
-learn from downloaded content.
-respect the hard work the goes into making these movies by buying the dvd.

Anonymous said...

ive been reading all those comments and, i assume you are live in USA, and have a good life (i hope), what about a guy or gal who lives in a less wealthy country, who has to work 10 hs every day just to survive, and you expect to that guy buy yourself a book/dvd/movie, it just wont happend, i dont want to tell you why.
iam studiying animation myself for about 10 years now, and i have to say that if is not for sharing (piracy, ripp off, call it wathever) i would quit this wonderfull way of art that is animation several years before.
In other hand i really support who makes really good training/videos/dvd. whenever i can i will buy something from them to say thanks, for using all the things for free, but you cant expect to buy everything legal because it will be impossible to most of the ppl.
There a few things that refuses to me to buy something legal, you pay for it and it turns out when you receive it/watch it, is not something worth the money you paid for or is really not that good (to say something), so try it first if you like it, buy it.
BTW piracy have been whit us since the beggining of the digital age, and the world still turning, if not as bill gates if he is broken because of it. (sorry about my english)

Jean-Denis Haas said...

I know this is like politics or religion, a topic with strong opinions where each side thinks they're right. And each side is totally entitled to their opinion.

I agree it's an unrealistic expectation, but that still doesn't make it right. And I'm not talking about people living in a country with an oppressive regime where you have to steal food in order to survive. Of course these people can't afford everything. And if you're going that route, than yes, I can't convince you, and you can't convince me.

But most arguments made here are (in my opinion) still a big pile of stinking BS.

CGMarshall, yes, dowloading movies is still stealing. At least you buy them, so sure, there comes the grey zone, that you used something illegally until you legally purchased the item. But you have the attitude that you are paying for something that you're using, and that's my point.

You can't afford it? Oh well, that makes it okay to steal it. Again, I'm not talking about fighting for survival. I'm talking about a $9 dollar DVD or $30 tutorial. Sure, I live in a wealthy country and I'm not poor. But there are a TON of things I can't afford and that would help out my family, or help me experience the great world of art or music or whatnot. Hell, I can't afford the best possible education for my son or the best health care. Does that mean it's fair? No. Do some people have it worse? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean that I can just go and take or use things because I can't afford it. That line of thinking is beyond me. Imagine everybody just going out and taking stuff because they can't afford it. It's just a backwards sense of entitlement.

And please, with all due respect to the last anonymous poster, but there are few things you refuse to buy legally because you didn't like the item????

WOW! Alright, let's go the restaurant and have dinner. The chef did everything right, but the meal is just not your taste. Other people might like it, but you don't. Screw it, I'm not going to pay for it. You know what, I don't really like the clothes I'm wearing, or the car I'm driving, or the education that I'm getting, or anything else that people work for in order to provide it for others. I'm just not going to pay for stuff I don't like. But I'm going to use it and try it out first of course.

Seriously? If you don't like something you shouldn't pay for it?

Of course I'm exaggerating. So let's go back to the DVD and tutorial. Let's keep it simple.

You didn't like the movie you just bought? You should get your money back.

Forget it, I can't argue against that. I just needed to rant and vent my opinion, which is subjective like everybody else's.

But I do appreciate the comments though, it's still interesting to hear what other people have to say, even if I disagree with them. :)

Alex said...

Wow. I can't believe this subject is actually requiring so much debate. The concept of property is literally a founding principle of our society.

Its the same reason I can't come into your house and steal your belongings, or claim your work as my own.

I hate this sense of entitlement people have. As if "I can't afford it, but I want it" is somehow a fair argument. There is NO JUSTIFICATION for screwing other people over to further your own ambitions. Period. End of discussion.

I'm a student. I've lived on ramen more than I'd like to admit. But I gave up some things so I could afford what I really wanted. I had enough money for a animation desk, or a bed, so I got the desk and slept on the floor for 6 months.

And you know what? Those were some of the most fun days I've had as an animator. So cut the sob story, we've all had it hard. Your attitude, your drive, your passion, that's what gets you a job. Everything else stems from that.

Anonymous said...

There's a difference between taking something AWAY for someone (like coming into someone's house and taking their belonging, or claiming someone else's work as your own) and making a copy. Then, it's not so clear that you actually "wronging" anybody. Downloading Maya or Photoshop IS a benefit to Adobe and Autodesk because it keeps their software ahead of all the rest in the industry. Listening to and/or watching art is a reward of recognition to the artist.

Consider this scenario, I download a ton of music on my computer. That means I'm a morally corrupt a$$hole. ORRRR I log into Grooveshark, a legal online radio source, and listen to whatever I want, whenever I want for free. Well, that's okay, someone said it was okay. Both methods of music enjoyment are free, but one, if caught, would ruin your life. By watching the ads that no one pays attention to, it's all okay.

For those of you who are taking a hard stance against piracy - Unless you respond to ads from pandora and grooveshark then you should be morally against using it. I have a strong feeling that the majority of you are not.

Anonymous said...

The question is if they are getting back enough money, or they just can't get enough money. If the artist got back the money he/she was at least expecting, then there's no need to complain! morally right or wrong, i honestly don't care! some people just can't afford to buy everything, unless what the artist is giving out is absolute gold, and people can't get it anywhere else!

-anonymous (a new one)

Saberi said...

I'm really sorry to say that I've been there and done that. I grew up in India and whatever is the cost here, it's 50 times more in India. So somehow using pirated copies of software seemed legitimate. And renting movies in India is not as convenient as it is here. (Unfortunately there is nothing like Netflix.) I'm not justifying stealing but that is how it is back there. Everybody does it and it doesn't seem wrong.
However I do not agree with people who blatantly say that it is absolutely fine to steal and that it is justified if you are a student. There are free open softwares like blender and gimp if you really want to learn the art and of course autodesk has student versions, so I'm loving it :) As for movies, i like it in the theatre, or i rent it online on Amazon (which is reasonably cheap) or watch it on netflix.
Now I'm a changed person!!!! :D I donated to Nina Paley because I thought her movie was super awesome and it is up for free.
But then I'm very ideological. :)

Alex said...

Sorry "anonymous" your logic has some pretty gaping holes in it.

You don't get to decide if an artist like Jamaal Bradley is "getting back enough money." Jamaal provides a product and he decides how much to charge for that product. If you take that product, without paying for it, you have stolen it.

There is ZERO difference between stealing Jamaal's tutorial, and walking into a store and stealing something off the shelf. You are taking something AWAY from him.

And please don't act like you are just "making a copy." That implies that you own the original and are just copying it for your own use. What you are doing is taking an illegal copy of a product you don't own and withholding the money you owe the artist.

And lastly, its worth pointing out that you are making things worse for all of us who actually pay for things. Jamaal's next tutorials will lack frame by frame scrubbing. Thanks for that.

Anonymous said...

What if I purchase the DVD, and gain the knowledge, and sell it for a little cheaper to another person, and keep the money. Perfectly legit and cheaper, right?

And what if the other person does the same after that? Again legit, because he's just selling it used!

There are loopholes everywhere! Trying to make it a rule or saying this is legit and this isn't is just an annoyance, and doesn't work in the real world.

What I am saying is as long as the artist get enough money to make him happy and continue with what he's doing, it's fine!

Request people to buy, and people who can afford will buy! Try to preach or tell people what they should do, people will do the opposite just to piss you off and you're just making things hard for yourself.

When learning, if you can't afford, then beg, borrow or stealing knowledge is fine with me!

Jean-Denis Haas said...

Hahahaha! Wow. Epic fail. But hey, good luck to you.

Anonymous said...

Hahahaha! Good luck to you too JD!

Josh Bowman said...

While I don't agree with Anonymous and his beg, borrow, steal philosophy, he does bring up an interesting point.

It used to be that you could purchase a book or DVD, read it, or watch it, take notes and when done with it sell it again and someone then gets to buy it second hand at a slightly reduced price and the process repeats itself.

Now with digital there doesn't appear to be the ability to purchase something, read it, watch it etc and when done with it sell it on and recoup the cost of the item as was done in previous years and has always been perfectly legal, the original owner of the book wasn't paid a second time and it was seen as perfectly legitimate.

That doesn't justify stealing at all, but all this digital, always pay full price forever thing, has stopped people who would normally be able to buy something second hand at a cheaper price being able to afford the training.

I buy books on animation, rigging, photography, drawing etc from Amazon quite often and I also sell them on eBay if I don't like the book or finish with it which isn't something I can do with digital training.

Once I buy something digitally, I don't own it, just the right to view it, because it's just a duplicate of a file. I'm still required to pay full price for it even though there's no way i can recoup that cost by selling it on once I'm done with it. So perhaps selling digital training or digital movies at a reduced price would be a better solution? Maybe?

While duplicating copyrighted files is against the law and is stopping money that rightfully should be paid to the author from getting to them, I think what's happening with 'piracy' is that people are still using old thinking to justify copying files in the new methods of distribution. I'm not using 'old' in a belittling sense here, merely pointing out that there used to be a way to recoup costs for these things by the purchaser without any money going to the original author and now there isn't. Hence people feel they are entitled to copy digitally even though it's a completely misplaced entitlement.

It's against the law no doubt but there's an underlying and persistent way people are used to thinking that is at war here with what people perceive is their right and what the law actually says is their right.

So no amount of huffing and puffing will change people's minds unless they decide to give up what used to be a common right and face the fact that it's no longer possible to recoup the cost of anything purchased digitally.

Again I'm not condoning copying digital copyrighted material, just pointing out that people are going to follow their perceived rights that go against the right of law if given half a chance.

Re-education is a more powerful deterrent than finger pointing and accusations.

Anonymous said...

Wait! You're okay with people selling used books (information on a page) but NOT used software/movie/music (information on a harddrive)

JD, we all know you watch Youtube as much as anyone else in the world, which is FILLED with copyrighted material. For you to not be a hypocrite, you would have to boycott Youtube! o.O

Jean-Denis Haas said...

I concede that selling used physical items is a greyzone that I'm guilty off, like selling my old maquettes or printers or whatnot.

The difference is that in the good old days of physical items, one person bought the item and when it's being resold, the first buyer would not own that item anymore and the new buyer payed for the used item. There is still a financial exchange going on (but I agree, the company would not see any of that secondhand money and we are all used to doing that, including myself).

But with today's digital files, one person buys the item, makes a copy and then gives it out for free. The first buyer still owns and uses it, while the second user did not spend any money. Did people used to duplicate books, or printers or toys before selling them used?

If you buy the tutorial and then sell it to someone else while permanently deleting your file and each subsequent exchange goes on the same way, I will have to accept that and retract my ill placed finger pointing. Then we are talking about selling used information on a hard drive.

But my point is that people are just download things without ever paying for it and that is still wrong to me. And in a smaller context, I'm talking about animators stealing items that other artists within their own industry produced. Why can't you at least support a fellow animator and pay for his tutorial?

And regarding the youtube question. What am I watching that would excuse theft? Just because youtube is filled with illegal movies, does that mean I should not watch files on it that are not illegal? Should I never buy Blu-rays anymore because people make copies of them and boycott that? That makes me a hypocrite? Should I not buy iTunes or Amazon mp3s because people "share" those files? Should I not walk around in my clothes because someone somewhere made a knock-off of it? Should I boycott everything and not use anything anymore? That's your argument and logic.

Or do you mean my showing snippets of Blade in the workshop for laughs? I own the DVD. But am I a hypocrite for just using 10 seconds of an illegally uploaded file? Or listening to the song "Magic" over and over because an animator used it as a joke? I bought that song on iTunes right there and then in the workshop. So I'm a hypocrite for having listened to it on youtube first?

Am I substituting youtube use for legal purchases? Instead of buying the DVDs or CDs I'm only watching movies or tv shows on youtube for free? I don't do that. Yeah, I watch Seaquest on youtube at work. But I own the show. Am I guilty for not bringing the whole DVD box to work because it's easier to watch the file online? Yes. Does that mean I'm supporting the person who illegally uploaded that show? You're right. I do. That's a good point and it doesn't matter that I payed for the DVDs, then? I guess not. Actually, I don't own "Biene Maja" on DVD and I listened to the theme song over and over.

I disagree that I should boycott youtube because people are misusing it.

Watching Seaquest on youtube and therefore using an illegally uploaded file, regardless of me owning the series? Yes, I'm guilty of that. I'm a hypocrite. You're right.

Jean-Denis Haas said...

I saw this in my email but not in the comments section, so I'm posting it on behalf of "anonymous":
______________

well i saw it coming, lol. comparing food with software its a really big mistake, food is an importat matter if the guy who makes it do it wrong or careless you can get very sick, and its dangerous to your health (ive been there) so its no comparison, also im sure you dont buy a car without testing it, clothes and shoes without try it on, so dont be hipocrit (im not sure if spells like that, so), you buy things because you try it before, or someone tell you its good, and you take the risk, nobody sells you a car or a tv without a test run. if you do, well.....

Anyway this is exactly like napster case again, every musician ranting and saying they gonna bankrupt me, mp3 gonna kill music, bla bla. today they are still rich as usual, the medium change, not the mesagge, if your message is crap nobody would buy it. there is no more make a cd or a print a book and sell millions(guess what? still is!), sit and watch the money pile up. those days are over. today you have to work for it (and im not saying they not work for it), but sharing is part of the modern life now.
Besides there are ways to prevent pyracy, streaming, watermarked copy, teach on demand. for example see the best school of animation (to me at least it is) AM, you dont see all its lessons over the internet for free, why? they care about that, and take the measures necessary to aviod it, if you dont do it its your problem.
so I know i cant change your mind, (not want to) but denied something for the sake of it, is just stupid.
i know stealing is WRONG, but if you call stealing to borrow/give/share somebody (friend, student, anyone) a book or a video to study/watch, so go and close any public library because they are giving books and stuff for free!.
So people, be realistic, this is the world we are living, you get fit to it or you are gone. it just the way it is.
be safe and keep animating!.
(again sorry for my english)
_____________

Good points, unfortunately AM material is online (lectures and rigs) and from what I hear also in shared folders in schools. AM does care, but people will always find a way to pirate it.
And if everybody would use public libraries instead of downloading stuff for free, I would also shut my accusatory mouth.
I just disagree with the blanket statement that "sharing is part of the modern life right now". That still doesn't make it right.

Oh well. I know this is a useless rant. People will find excuses to pirate stuff and I will find excuses to condemn it. Am I a 100% saint, no.

So instead of pointing fingers, how about this:

Please guys, support fellow animators? :)

Bruno Andrade said...

Sad to hear about AM material being online or in shared folders in schools. I went to AM and there were this feeling of respect to fellow students or alumni. In AM videos, they have the student name watermarked on all the videos.

I always thought someone would be crazy to just share those videos because of that, it could get you burned in this small industry. In fact I think AM could take legal actions againt the students or alumni that leak this material, since their names are on it.

I think anonymous has some interesting points, but in the end it still doesn´t make right to steal work from other artists.

so yeah, let´s support our fellow animators.

Anonymous said...

JD, has this theft of animation tutorials stopped or made you wary of releasing your own?

I know there are lots of resources for legal animation tutorials but i've always found your work to have a nice quirky edge and it would be great to see how you develop and come by that quality.

Jean-Denis Haas said...

Thanks, that's very kind of you to say. And despite my strong feelings about this issue, I'm fully aware that this has been going on for a while and probably will never change. I'm working on material and when it's ready, it will be up for free. I got free help when I graduated, so I'm not going to charge now when other people ask for my help. The only charge is if you attend my workshops, and I try to keep the price as low as I can. There's a lot more work and time away from my family involved, plus workshop room rent, so I can't do those for free.

Anonymous said...

Education is a right and Entertainment is luxury, which one needs to pay for.

If sharing stuff for education is like stealing in your opinion, I wonder what you think of colleges/universities having library of materials for students to borrow for weeks altogether!

Jean-Denis Haas said...

Come on, really?

So education is a right, and therefore it is okay to not pay Jamaal for his tutorial video?

That's what you're saying.

I'm sure colleges and universities have deals with the institutions who provide the education material.

And the students pay tuition fees in order to attend and then they get access to all the material. Some countries have free education or minimal university fees.

But my point still stands? Because education is a right, is it okay to not pay Jamaal?

If your answer to that is yes, then I can't help you and I still think you're stealing from him.

Jean-Denis Haas said...

If your argument is that Jamaal's online tutorial is part of basic education, then we will have to agree to disagree on that. To me it's an extension and a specialized training material and not part of basic education.

Anonymous said...

For all I care, Mr. Jamaal is already working at a feature studio, AND teaching at iAnimate. I'm just saying stop complaining if you're already getting what you thought you'd get out of making the tutorial!

Let the students who can afford pay for it and students who can't, copy it! Most of the information everyone needs to animate is already on the internet for free!

Franky said...

new Anonymous dudee (above) Stop it man just stop it. theres enough free help out there man, like keithlango's stuff. http://www.youtube.com/user/keithlango (which are awesome and you should Subscribe) stop all the fronting man, (even tho its wrong) I understand that sometime you gotta do what you gotta do, but don't Boast about it man. on the real!

Anonymous said...

I'm not here to say what is right or wrong. I'm giving you a reality of situation. If you want to accept it, fine! If you don't want to, then it's fine too! Reality is not going to change for you. Fitting yourself into being practical is best for everyone is all I want to say!

Alex said...

Hah. Yeah right. You've been pretty clear on what you think is right and wrong. The reality of the situation is that people like yourself take advantage of the digital medium to rip off artists who are providing a service. That forces artists to take measures to protect themselves.

You gotta love the "Theft happens, so get used to it." mentality. Good luck dude.

Anonymous said...

Good luck with changing the world, dude!

Olivier Ladeuix said...

I only read the first few comments and couldn't be bothered to read the next ones. I agree entirely with JD.

Come on what is $20 to buy a movie when you spend zillions in crappy education?

You will learn much more through a DVD than most education AND you will also support an industry that needs your money. If animators don't support their industry who will???

Same thing for training tutorials, look at what is happening with Ianimate animation tutorials! I did the Mike Walling's tutorial translation in french but it got so pirated that there won't be any more french tutorials in the future. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Now I still need to say that the industry is not helping though. I travel a lot because animation work requires that and can't carry all my Bluray movies with me everywhere. Distributors offer an option with the Digital Copy but it is only a bad quality SD version that is really cumbersome to use and in the case of Disney, locked to a device so if you buy a new machine .... you lose your Digital Copy. Lame.

For_Real? said...

As you said Denis, everyone's entitled to its own opinion, but going preachy and putting everybody in the same bag is just as lame as the ones you're criticizing.
This Industry system do not reward its animators, and you don't need an MBA to know that little money will go in the pockets of the artists. Shareholders will get the big chunk.
Also come live in South East Asia, where the prices are not dropping an inch to fit the living cost of people. Should I support that ?

You said that this copying thing has gone too far, well, guess what, the Industry went further taking advantage of that situation to make copyrighting a legal weapon against the artists themselves and a growing profit despite a strong need for affordable culture.

If you look at the stats, you wouldn't believe how big the sales are for DVD/BR and music, bigger than ever and yet, these consumers do copy from time to time.

If "copying" is theft, then what's your position with Banks sucking the money out of US taxpayers through government bailout ? is that alright ? because that's where the problem IS. Believe me, well, it's not even a matter of faith nowadays.

Keep up the good work.

Jean-Denis Haas said...

I see what you mean, but I don't understand how corrupt bailouts and money sucking shareholders are an excuse for not paying a fellow artist $30.

Christopher said...

I've run across the tutorials of some incredibly generous animators, ones who already provide tons of free educational content, on the internet for free. It seems people don't appreciate much anymore.

Even if one chooses to pirate movies or software with the "corporations are evil" line of thinking, it would seem to go totally against their belief system to do the same thing to an individual trying to make money off a quality product they've developed and sold themselves. Trying to justify your stealing because he's already working at a feature studio is ridiculous.

etuel said...

It's a difficult line to draw when nobody has defined the road we walk on, I agree we should support art and artists who work hard on the material they create. But we also support stealing in different ways, like for instance The reRelease of the Lion Kings, http://www.kimbawlion.com/rant2.htm it's justs a story stolen by Disney and they made a crap load of money from an idea they were never allowed to use. But everyone still wants to work for Disney and it doesn't detour people at all. Were a nation of thieves unfortunately, Napster was the spark, and it set off one hell of a fire

Jason Campbell said...

I love how vocal people who wont identify themselves are on topics of theft. They've automatically won the debate by not showing up.

The real question that can't be answered is how many more talented people would be sharing their knowledge if this theft wasn't the norm.

Planning the information, collecting it, refining it, packaging it, marketing it, all takes time and a tremendous effort and this deserves compensation on top of the inherent value of the knowledge being shared. Steal it and it becomes more likely that the person sharing will no longer choose to share.

Then we all loose.

You can argue till you are blue in the face trying to make this black area grey but just was we are useless appealing to your lack of morals you are just as useless in compromising ours.

Go ahead and take this opportunity to hide behind the curtain and try to make what you're doing sound justified and we'll just stand here and call you a douche.

Whoever you are.

Joshua Slice said...

^^^^^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_FZVD5lsAw

=D

Anonymous said...

JD > I never encouraged people downloading tutorials for free, especially knowing that the artist making them makes real profit.
I totally agree with you when it comes to that.

Christopher> No one justifies anything but don't expect all animators worlwide to have a middle class life. I'd rather encourage animators buying the short films other animators are putting out since the artist get the big chunk. Doing business is cool, corporations are about profit, not fairness. Don't make me say anything that would justify that misplaced righteousness.

Isabela Renata said...

I completely agree with your thoughts, JD. I am also one who has movies in my hard drive (I'm not going to lie), but I do tend to save little by little money to buy them in the future, I do like to support companies. Like it has been mentioned before, students use them to learn the craft.
But also, I've met and heard students say things like "why buy the dvds when you can download them for free?" it's sad, but arguing about it just gets you nowhere.

Not to mention that some movies come with a digital copy now.